The occasion for this hysterical reaction on my part was the following headline in today’s local newspaper (an AP feed, of course) FDA to ban sale of raw oysters from Gulf of Mexico. When did this happen? Why was I not told?
It turns out my hysteria, as so often happens, was premature. What the FDA is saying is they plan to ban oysters harvested from the Gulf in the warmer months, unless they’ve been treated to kill the bacteria Vibrio vulnificus, which kills about 15 people a year.
Okay, I still have so many problems with this issue. It kills 15 people a year. Usually people with compromised immune systems…who in my view should have better sense than to be eating raw oysters from the Gulf in the summer. (Rebuttal: as the advisor to the FDA said on NPR this afternoon, 15 deaths is too many if they can be prevented. They can be…see my last statement.) To underscore, here is a quote from the article:
“The FDA is promoting a ban because high-risk groups are not heeding warnings about raw oysters, and millions of other people may not know they are vulnerable.” Well, whose problem is that?
The problem is the treatment, which oyster people say destroys the taste and texture of the raw oyster. The treatment, according to the article, involves mild heat, freezing temperatures, high pressure, and low dose gamma radiation. I’m picturing a raw oyster with nothing left but the pearl. Well apparently they don’t do all these things at once to the oyster, they are individual alternatives.
Now then, for the oyster people, in my opinion, oysters do not really have a “taste” except for whatever you might put on them…lemon juice, hot sauce, horseradish, etc. Oysters are more of a sensation than a taste. Mostly a sensation of coolness, rivaled only by the cucumber. I object to the article calling them slimy. They are smooth. But if the treatment process interferes with that (which I consider a “texture” issue), that would be bad.
But so…I don’t get to have big fat, perfectly delicately salty oysters from Appalachicola Bay year-round (except for the algae bloom periods, of course.) I have to eat scrawny little oysters from like frigging Massachusetts?
Is Fakename about to have her first revelation about “government interference”?. This is truly ridiculous in my opinion. Where was the FDA when it was about spinach? I’m suspicious that the FDA has latched onto an industry think they can cower into submission in order to resurrect their tarnished image. In order to have a worse reputation in the Gulf, you would have to be FEMA.
The ban is not supposed to take place until 2011, and I’m hoping it will never happen. I don’t actually think it will. Oyster People, Unite!
27 responses so far ↓
masteroftheuniverse // October 28, 2009 at 10:26 pm |
With these jokers in Washington, nothing will surprise me. They are bumbling around, and don’t really have a clue as to what they are doing. An oyster ban fits in with “beef will cause global warming,” and that’s what we get from these socialists in the executive branch. I really look at the jokers in Washington like a bunch of 60’s radicals who used to hate the establishment and now they are the establishment.
Raw Oyster Alert // October 29, 2009 at 1:55 pm |
I am sorry if any kind of ban would crush business, however, money is not the motivating factor here for the FDA — the safety of consumers is what is priority.
It makes me so angry to continue to see news articles that talk about how horrible this is for business. What about how horrible it is for the people who get sick and die from eating UNSAFE raw oysters unknowningly?
The oyster and restaurant industry want to talk about how people should know better if they are sick. Well, the fact is … they don’t know. Actually, many people who are considered at high risk from eating raw oysters don’t even know they are at risk, such as individuals with diabetes who have not yet been diagnosed or those with liver problems that are undiagnosed. There are countless other medical conditions that people may have and don’t have any idea that there is a problem eating raw oysters.
I can tell you from personal experience — my father died from eating raw oysters 2 years ago in Louisiana. My family had no idea that eating raw oysters had the potential to kill an individual, nor did we know that he was an at risk individual — nor did he. He ate raw oysters to celebrate his birthday and ended up dying from that meal.
FDA needs to finally do something about this and the oyster and restaurant industry need to stop thinking about just the bottom line and dollars and cents and start thinking about the safety of consumers and human lives.
masteroftheuniverse // October 29, 2009 at 3:32 pm |
More people get killed by knives than guns. The FDA needs to regulate knives in order to stop the unnecessary deaths caused by knives. I’m sure we will find a substitute for a knife. The government needs to be our babysitter as we can’t look after our own selves.
eehard // October 29, 2009 at 3:34 pm |
I was going to argue against your point but Raw Oyster Alert hits the nail right on the head.
fakename2 // October 29, 2009 at 7:12 pm |
Alert, that is truly tragic and I am sorry for your loss. However, I find it almost inconceivable that anyone would not know there is a risk to eating oysters. It’s on the menu and posted on the wall of every restuarant that serves them, at least every one I’ve ever been to, and I think it may be the law. I can, however, imagine not realizing you are at risk.
It is extremely rare, and the chances of getting it must be infinitessimal. Millions of people eat millions of oysters from the Gulf every year. There are many regulations already in place–the warnings I mentioned, plus improvements in refrigeration on oyster boats. The government cannot protect us from every potential bad thing that may happen to us. It cannot protect us from our vices–we know how well Prohibition worked.
It will kill many small oystermen if this is required and they have to pay for it themselves; or it will kill them because people won’t buy from them if they do it. But I object to this not on those grounds, but as a consumer. I don’t object to government regulation of all food; obviously before pasteurization of milk, hundreds of thousands of people died.
spencercourt // October 29, 2009 at 7:35 pm |
> Vibrio vulnificus
I love it when you talk dirty.
spencercourt // October 29, 2009 at 7:44 pm |
> 15 deaths is too many if they can be prevented.
That’s one of those “Volvo liberal” sound bites that sounds noble but which cannot withstand logical scrutiny because….
We can prevent ALL skydiving deaths by making skydiving illegal, all diving deaths by making it illegal, and so on.
Would you support that? Folks often kill themselves. I believe in giving them the freedom to do so.
Life is risky.
ANY raw food is risky, whether oysters or sushi, etc. To say that one did know eating raw food was risky is an attempt to shift personal responsibility.
fakename2 // October 29, 2009 at 8:22 pm |
I eat raw beef too–steak tartare, at least my own personal version of it. Will there be a law that says all beef you buy in the store will be cooked ahead of time? No more steak tartare or rare steaks, in case I might get mad cow disease? I must (as Jeff says) be protected from myself?
In that case, eggs will have be sold already cooked too, in case somebody was tempted to eat a raw or undercooked one. And salt…we should ban that altogether, right?
spencercourt // October 30, 2009 at 8:28 pm |
I almost mentioned steak tartar but decided no one eats that nasty stuff! But hey..you eat SPAM! lol!
Just what is your version of steak tartar? Enquiring minds want to know.
eehard // October 29, 2009 at 9:44 pm |
The way you guys are talking is as if you condone buying a tainted jar of peanut butter then saying you should have bought Peter Pan instead of Jiff.
spencercourt // October 30, 2009 at 8:25 pm |
Not a good example Nick, because peanut butter is a processed food and therefore not supposed to be tainted. We are talking about eating raw food, which always carries risks, including raw veggies.
Fakesister // October 30, 2009 at 7:44 am |
Cooking that beef won’t protect you from mad cow disease.
eehard // October 30, 2009 at 3:59 pm |
And that is why we need the FDA, to keep contaminated products out of the food supply. Not that they do a bang up job to begin with but maybe the Obama Administration will properly fund the agency.
fakename2 // October 30, 2009 at 8:49 pm |
I hate that reply thing…it loses the train as far as I’m concerned. So Steve: ground chuck, seasoned with Paul Prudhomme’s meat seasoning, mixed with chopped onion. The “quickie” version. Maybe held together with raw egg, but not necessarily. The original version you can probably find online, and the Joy of Cooking has an updated version…is JOK online, I wonder?
fakename2 // October 30, 2009 at 8:50 pm |
*JOC
fakename2 // October 30, 2009 at 8:53 pm |
Thanks Fakesister, nice to hear from the scientifically knowledgeable branch of the family. You’ll have to remind me what bad things I am subjecting myself to, because I know it is something or the other
Vibrio v., like mad cow disease, is odorless and tasteless.
fakename2 // October 31, 2009 at 10:52 am |
But back to the point. If you do get V. vulnificus (which is a relative of cholera) it is horrific. If you get it and it gets into the bloodstream, the mortality rate is 50%. (I get all my info from the CDC.) In addition to getting it from seafood, you can also get it by swimming in warm seawater if you have an open wound of some kind, in which case it goes directly into the bloodstream.
So should we ban swimming in the Gulf of Mexico in the summer? I mean for everybody, not just those few with wounds, since there may be people who have wounds and don’t know it. (And who would do the inspections and keep them out of the water?) Or who may cut their feet on a shell while in the water. Obviously that’s ridiculous, but what’s the difference?
Posting warnings and shutting down beaches where bacteria of various kinds are found, and shutting down oyster beds where V. vulnificus is found is already done. Shutting down beaches also occurs when there are dangerous rip currents, but people drown in Florida all the time by ignoring the warnings. I repeat: if the FDA’s rationale is that high risk groups are not heeding the warnings, whose problem is that?
Raw Oyster Alert // October 31, 2009 at 12:00 pm |
I agree with you to a point. If an individual knowing participates in an activity that is life endangering, then that is their choice to make. For example, riding a motorcycle without a helmet is a choice some people make and by doing so they assume the risks that are involved with that.
My point is that at least in my case, neither my father nor any of our family knew about the risk, so therefore, he was not ignoring the warning — he was never informed, we were never informed.
Yes, the menu has warnings. We were very familiar with the warnings. The warnings state, “there may be a risk associated with consuming raw shellfish…”
At no point did we ever remotely think that this meant you could have flesh eating bacteria, die and die a painful agonizing death. What I thought this meant was that you could get stomach distress, diarrhea, gastrointestinal cramps, etc. — NOT DEATH
The ISSC themselves had an independent study performed that found that of those individuals who were considered “at risk” … 60% were not aware of this information either. These are individuals who KNOW they have some type of medical issue. Now add to that all of the people who are undiagnosed with diabetes or something else that could compromise their immune system.
A person cannot make a choice between life or death when they are not even remotely aware.
Can we please stop trying to blame the victim? The victim did not knowingly participate in risky behavior or chose to die. In my case he was simply celebrating his birthday with one of his favorite meals with his family.
fakename2 // October 31, 2009 at 12:51 pm |
Alert…I am reluctant to engage you on this, since I mostly am sensitive to the fact of your grief. Two years is not long when it concerns the death of a parent.
But…you contradict yourself. You knew about the warnings (which I knew you had to if you’re in Louisiana, I lived there four years myself). Maybe you argue that the warnings should be stronger…perhaps they should say “there is a risk, including death”. But a total ban is not appropriate in my view.
I really am not blaming the victim, but in a sense you are wrong. The victim did knowingly participate in risky behavior, and had bad luck. I’m just sorry it was your father.
Raw Oyster Alert // October 31, 2009 at 12:56 pm |
But the FDA is not saying they are placing a ban on raw oysters. They are saying that during those 7 months that oysters are at the most dangerous levels, they need to go through post harvesting processing or pasturization in order to be sold for raw consumption. Oysters can also still be harvested for other consumption.
I will have to also disagree that we knew about the dangers and risks. We are a college educated middle class family and we absolutely did not know that raw oysters have the possibility of causing a flesh eating bacteria and that death is almost imminent in many cases. Had we known that information three is no way any of us would have consumed raw oysters.
fakename2 // October 31, 2009 at 1:02 pm |
As a postscript: it’s highly unlikely that I will ever face an infection such as this, because I don’t eat raw oysters in the summer. I will admit I’ve pushed it, since September ( a month with an “r” in it) is still way too hot around here, water temperature-wise.
fakename2 // October 31, 2009 at 1:30 pm |
Again, Alert, I believe your grief is speaking. The FDA cannot fix that for you.
The sure-fire way to prevent a reaction, even a minor one, to eating raw oysters is never to eat raw oysters, period. As spencercourt comments above, we could prevent 100% of skydiving injuries by banning skydiving.
The warnings should be sufficient. That’s the meaning of “do this at your own risk”. The FDA or any other agency should not have to paint a picture for you of how bad it could get.
The issue here is really not whether you knew or did not know, or took heed or did not, it’s whether the FDA should regulate the choice of millions of people based on the experiences of a few. In my opinion, it should not.
Rocky Humbert // October 31, 2009 at 5:51 pm |
Fakename: there IS hope for you!! Just substitute the word “—–” for oysters…
Alert: My genuine sympathy on your loss.
Having had a nasty foodborne illness once, I don’t eat raw shellfish anymore. But that’s my personal choice. I just wish that I could find a wheel of genuine french unpasteurized cheese — but I cannot. And my teenage daughter is fearful that her PB&J sandwiches will soon be banned from her high school soon too….
Thank you, FDA!
fakename2 // October 31, 2009 at 6:51 pm |
Rocky: who knew that I would ever agree with the conservative/Anarchist/Libertarian wing of my readership?
fakename2 // November 1, 2009 at 12:06 pm |
And Rocky, don’t get too enamored of Fakename’s take on this. She still places herself steadfastly on the liberal side of the aisle, and will not fill in the blank ( per your response, which was very amusing!)
I see you still wish to live dangerously by eating non-pasteurized cheese, so may I suggest, since you are in NY that you drive across the border? I’m fairly certain you can get what you desire in Canada.
Rocky Humbert // November 1, 2009 at 10:22 pm |
fakename: Thanks for the suggestion, but I cannot make it over the border. The Weather Service is warning that there will be a snowstorm this winter, and it will be treacherous driving conditions … so they have closed ALL of the roads….permanently.
fakename2 // November 1, 2009 at 11:16 pm |
Omg…thank goodness you were paying attention. If you had actually made it into Canada, you could have been stuck there, forced to survive on food not vetted by the FDA.